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蓝海人类学在线 Ryan WEI's Forum of Anthropology

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(转)新石器、青铜时代乌克兰mtDNA含有东部欧亚成分

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发表于 2011-9-6 19:21 | 显示全部楼层
R在印度的多态性也最高,但R1更似与雅利安人入侵相关。东南亚也是如此,蒙古人种出现不早于新石器时代,古代dna也显示东南亚古人mtdna更近澳-美人种而不是蒙古人种。其实也就是说不是蒙古人种的母系大群B。
发表于 2011-9-6 19:39 | 显示全部楼层
B未必一开始就是蒙古人种,尼科巴人的母系也是B
sahaliyan 发表于 2011-9-6 19:36


尼科巴还是基本落入蒙古人种的,略多尼格力托混合,而后者相对澳-美人种,也是倾向蒙古人种的。
发表于 2011-9-6 23:50 | 显示全部楼层
美洲原住民MT有A,B,C,D,然而美洲原住民在一些特征上还不是完全的蒙古人种,但是到了因纽特人就基本完全具备了蒙古人种的特征,这说明蒙古人种是在印第安人入居美洲之后,因纽特人进入美洲之前产生的,而B显然太 ...
sahaliyan 发表于 2011-9-6 23:45

这个我反对,美洲和亚洲长期隔离并且严重漂变,产生一些偏差是很自然的事。
发表于 2011-9-7 21:09 | 显示全部楼层

Tehuelche

本帖最后由 Vietschlinger 于 2011-9-7 22:30 编辑
问题在于越晚进入美洲的居民越接近蒙古人种
我认为蒙古人种的产生是新石器时代的事情
sahaliyan 发表于 2011-9-7 00:00



相信阁下这里的“蒙古人种”仅仅是指所谓的“类北亚人种”成分。


况且,美洲土著的成分,恐怕难以用简单的“遗传漂变”来概括,因为跟他们所处的纬度气候似乎无关;不夸张地说,美洲各地的土著都集齐了全世界几乎所有族群的体质类型。


“蒙古人种诞生于新石器时代”,也恐怕只是阁下单方面的想法而已。


在阿根廷南部的圣十字州(Santa Cruz),也就是巴塔哥尼亚大区,西班牙殖民者传说中的“巨人族”。圣十字州越过麦哲伦海峡和火地岛,就可到达寒冷的南极圈。圣十字州当地的Tehuelche部族,已在当地定居超过1万4千年了,大概不会晚于新石器时期,也不会迟过携带Yhg C3的Na-Dene人群迁入。

Tehuelche部族没有发展出细石器工业(highly-sized rocks),也没有发展出陶器;所以曾否进入过青铜文明就很难说了。





























这三幅是Tehuelche部族之中的“类南亚”、“类西亚欧”成分:













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发表于 2011-9-7 21:21 | 显示全部楼层
问题在于越晚进入美洲的居民越接近蒙古人种,NA-DENE人就比其他美洲人更接近蒙古人种,而因纽特人已经完全具备了蒙古人种的特征
我认为蒙古人种的产生是新石器时代的事情
sahaliyan 发表于 2011-9-7 00:00

或许这个跟越晚进入美洲的居民,分布越北有关。
发表于 2011-9-11 09:30 | 显示全部楼层
按传统体质人类学美洲人种也属蒙古大人种.  而美洲人种到达美洲最少1.1万年.
蒙古大人种.JPG
发表于 2011-9-11 09:31 | 显示全部楼层
尼科巴还是基本落入蒙古人种的,略多尼格力托混合,而后者相对澳-美人种,也是倾向蒙古人种的。
Yungsiyebu 发表于 2011-9-6 19:39

请明确一下概念,你的“蒙古人种”到底是北亚人种还是马来人种?
发表于 2011-9-11 11:02 | 显示全部楼层
我一直认为,体质是基因的事情

为什么非要把y上的无意义突变和mt上的无意义突变扯进来
发表于 2011-9-11 15:50 | 显示全部楼层
是呀,为什么论坛里总有那么多人,把单倍群与人种联系在一起呢?
发表于 2011-9-11 22:27 | 显示全部楼层
我一直奇怪,哪位把c和m挂上钩,蒙古上古是o,陶寺o都是m,也没看到国外有这种奇怪的说法

看金力也没有这种奇谈怪论啊

有把b和o挂钩,诞生时间,地点差老远的
发表于 2011-9-30 19:25 | 显示全部楼层
新石器时代乌克兰的Mt-C有可能是乌拉尔人带来的。
发表于 2013-9-28 01:41 | 显示全部楼层
剛剛看到Dienekes,原文已可下載:
http://scholarworks.gvsu.edu/theses/5/
发表于 2013-9-28 01:59 | 显示全部楼层
MtDNA HVSI Sequences in Neolithic NPR Inhabitants

We obtained mtDNA HVSI sequences for 14 individuals from three collective
burials belonging to the DD culture from the Middle Neolithic (Table 3). All differences
from the revised Cambridge Reference Sequence (rCRS; Anderson et al., 1981; Andrews
et al., 1999) for the HVSI region (nucleotide positions 16024-16383) are listed in Table
4. All differences listed are nucleotide transitions (Table 4). Of the three cemeteries,
Yasinkovatka is the best-represented (9 individuals), followed by Nikolskoye (3
individuals) and Dereivka (2 individuals).
We were able to assign 12 of 14 Neolithic individuals to mtDNA haplogroups
based on HVSI variations and RFLP data (when necessary). Nine of these individuals
belonged to haplogroups characteristic of European and Near Eastern populations (Table
3). DD33 (HVSI motif 16311), DD38 (16080), Ya57 (16241), and Ya64 (16064-16240)
were members of haplogroup H. Ya32, Ya54, and Ni79 belonged to haplogroup T and
shared the HVSI motif 16294-16296. Ya19 (16343) belonged to haplogroup U3, and
Ni94 (16256-16270-16356) belonged to haplogroup U5a. Interestingly, Ni58 and Ya45
carried the HVSI motif characteristic of the root sequence that defines haplogroup C,
16223-16298-16327, although Ni58 possessed an additional mutation at position 16061.
A third individual, Ya34 (16223-16298-16327-16357), belonged to the C4a sublineage.
Haplogroup C is one of the most common lineages in East Eurasian, particularly
Siberian, populations but is very rare in modern Europe.
DD38, Ya32, Ya54, and Ni79 were assigned to haplogroups even though we were
unable to obtain DNA sequence data for their entire HVSI. We could not amplify the 145
bp fragment of HVSI (Table 2) in Ya32, Ya54, or Ni79 (shared HVSI motif 16294-
16296), but sufficient mtDNA sequence data was collected from other fragments to
successfully type them to haplogroup T. We were only able to recover data from one
HVSI fragment in sample DD38 which contained only one mutation at position 16080
(142 bp; Table 2). We were able to assign this sample to haplogroup H by confirming the
absence of the AluI restriction enzyme site at position 7025 (Table 3).
Two individuals (Ya17 and Ya36) could not be definitively assigned to a
haplogroup due ambiguous HVSI motifs (16241 and 16320, respectively), and we could
not successfully amplify DNA to check the RFLP status of these samples. It is quite
possible that Ya17 is a member of haplogroup H, considering that another sample from
the same cemetery (Ya57; Table 3) has the same HVSI motif as Ya17 (16241) and was
successfully typed to haplogroup H. Ya36 possessed only one difference from the rCRS
at position 16320, but it is not a diagnostic position for any particular haplogroup (van
Oven and Kayser, 2009). Ya36 may also be a member of haplogroup H due to its overall
lack of differentiation, but this is only a tentative assignment in the absence of RFLP
data.
发表于 2013-9-28 02:00 | 显示全部楼层
MtDNA HVSI Sequences in Bronze Age Kurgans

In addition to the 14 Neolithic specimens mentioned above, we also recovered
mtDNA HVSI sequences from three individuals from Bronze Age Kurgan burial mounds
in southern Ukraine in order to examine whether any genetic continuity existed between
Neolithic and Bronze Age NPR populations. All differences to the rCRS are nucleotide
transitions, except for an A-T transversion at position 16305 in sample L8 (Table 4).
Samples D1.8, L8, and L15 all possess highly derived HVSI motifs (D1.8: 16223-16278-
16298-16327-16357; L8: 16218-16223-16288-16298-16305AT-16327-16357; L15:
16218-16223-16298-16327-16357; Table 4). All three samples were identified as
members of haplogroup C4a, similar to Ya34 (16223-16298-16327-16357). D1.8
belonged to haplogroup C4a3, as defined by 16278. L8 and L15 belonged to a branch of
C4a not previously observed in any of the modern and ancient humans, which we have
labeled C4a6 (Table 4).
发表于 2013-9-28 02:08 | 显示全部楼层
烏克蘭新石器時期、青銅器時期Kurgan墓地人骨皆測出C4a。讓人聯想到之前新疆小河墓地疑似印歐語族的4000年前古屍是父系R1a1a-M17+母系C4的組合,也包括樓蘭美女。

4千年前新疆小河墓地古代DNA:
http://www.ranhaer.com/viewthread.php?tid=7804&extra=&page=1
发表于 2013-9-28 11:08 | 显示全部楼层
不排除原印欧人在东欧就与乌拉尔人混血得到mt-C4,而后把C4逆向带到新疆。
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